A Message About The Latest Newsletter Posted by Carolina Gonzalez on November 23, 2011 at 12:11pm in Site Help / Questions View Discussions I am sadly surprised to read this article in the newsletter I just received:
http://www.zibbet.com/blog/2011.11.22/zibbet-qa-what-can-i-sell-on-...
We were reported for selling Tarot readings and removed the listings - something I accepted, even though I still find completely unreasonable - and now Zibbet is saying I can't sell ritual supplies? If this is so, I may have to close my Zibbet account, because what a Witchcraft shop sells is mainly ritual supplies.
I am an artisan too, that is clear for everyone who can see our shop. A pagan artisan, that creates pagan items and sources herbs and other items to be used as ritual supplies. I think Zibbet needs to have a deeper understanding of what a Pagan shop is, and of what are Pagan crafts.
We are a serious, hard-working HANDMADE business. Proof of that is that we have sold 34 items in three months (and are near 2000 on Etsy), and have brought new customers to Zibbet every week. Since the day we opened the shop, we have been promoting Zibbet everywhere, and were expecting many years of colaboration - but this article is so clearly against Pagan shops, and particularly against us, that I am seriously considering moving the shop away from here. I don't want to stay where I'm not welcome.
I would like to know what Admins have to say, and also what other sellers have to say, before making a decision.
Carolina Gonzalez
House Of Eleggua
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Permalink Reply by Two Little Witches (Samantha) on November 23, 2011 at 1:24pm Can't say I understand the reasoning for that but then again I really don't understand this part either and there's nothing ritualistic about it...
"anything that can be construed to be a service that cannot be directly related to a Zibbet shop cannot be sold on Zibbet, regardless of the mode of delivery."
So designing a banner for a Zibbet shop is a service that is acceptable, but designing a logo for a website (the same service) is not? Why are some legal services acceptable while others are not?
Permalink Reply by Clarify (Claranne ) on November 23, 2011 at 1:46pm I think the line on services needed to be drawn somewhere, and allowing services directly related to operation of one's Zibbet shop seemed like a good place to draw that line. If other services were permitted it would open the door to lawyers advertising services for preparing wills, dentists might advertise tooth extractions, etc. Permitting services directly related to improvement of Zibbet shops is akin to selling supplies to be used by a crafter. Of course a shopper who sees that a Zibbeter does graphic design work might contact that seller to arrange for work to be used off Zibbet, and the transaction can be completed off Zibbet.
Permalink Reply by Two Little Witches (Samantha) on November 23, 2011 at 2:00pm Hardly the same. Lawyers preparing wills and dentists advertising dental procedures are not crafts... there is no design, they are business services. Designing a banner, a logo or a website is an art. You are providing a handmade good... just in a digital form. How does it differ from selling downloadable goods like digital ebooks, patterns and multi-pupose images?
Permalink Reply by Carolina Gonzalez on November 23, 2011 at 1:28pm Another great point, Samantha. Same goes for doanloadable items for collage/scrapbooking, and almost any item related to graphic design.
My point is - Zibbet should care about resellers, not about hard-working artists, no matter which media they use. Handmade has many forms.
Permalink Reply by Clarify (Claranne ) on November 23, 2011 at 1:38pm The portion that appears to concern you says:
Stones and such, which can be made into jewelry and other items that are eligible to be sold on Zibbet can be sold through the Supplies category. However, they can’t be sold as spells or any thing that can be construed as a service. They also cannot be sold as supplies used for rituals of any kind.
This is just my take, and the official Zibbet interpretation may differ, but my understanding is that you may sell products you handmade and which are intended for use in a ritual, but you may not sell products which you have not modified enough to put them in the category of handmade by you if they are sold to be used in a ritual. Basically what I understand this to say is just that an item which is a supply must be intended for use by a crafter who will use that supply to create some new handmade item. This does not appear to be a new rule, just clarification of the longstanding policy. If I misunderstand, perhaps Vicki can set us all straight.
http://www.zibbet.com/Clarify - || - http://www.zibbet.com/ManOverboard - || - http://www.zibbet.com/Critiques
Permalink Reply by Carolina Gonzalez on November 23, 2011 at 1:46pm Claranne, I understand the same - but a pagan crafter may need a supply to make, for example, an amulet, that is not considered a supply by non-pagan crafter.
And, I would also like to point that I'm not sure how Zibbet understands the word spell either. There is as much craft in making a spell than there is in making a banner for another shop, which is permitted.
Permalink Reply by Clarify (Claranne ) on November 23, 2011 at 2:05pm Carolina-
I think that what you describe would be permitted. I think it is the use to be made by the purchaser of the supply that would determine whether an item was permitted. So I would think you could sell a supply that a pagan crafter will use to make a new item which is then sold on Zibbet for use in a ritual. However, if an item might be used either by a crafter to make a new item or a consumer to use without any substantial modification I expect it would be prohibited regardless of whether it might be used in a ritual. I see there are many pendants listed as supplies and which seem as if they might be used by a consumer simply by attaching a chain or string. So I think you raise a good question, but I expect the policy would be applied evenly regardless of whether an item is to be used for a purpose which is religious, ritualistic, or secular.
Permalink Reply by Carolina Gonzalez on November 23, 2011 at 2:11pm I just think that ignoring the pagan community is a mistake, and that the article was clearly against Pagan shops. We are not scams, we are artisans above all - and I thought was Zibbet was about was Handmade. If it is about Handmade, then we comply with rules as much as you can comply :).
Permalink Reply by BeadCactus (Sandy) on November 23, 2011 at 2:10pm I believe there may be some pressure from non-pagan on Zibbet to have the listings removed. I believe this is wrong for another to put pressure to bear based on a misunderstanding of the background of pagan and pagan rituals.
As far as I am concerned, there is little difference in your shop selling incense for spells and another shop to sell incense for religion. To prevent your shop from selling spell items is spitting hairs with the shops allowed to sell rosaries.
Tarot card readings is more of a service than a craft, and a service which provides a non-intrinsic item. A downloadable banner, avatar or pattern, while not physically mailed is delivered for the use, at any time by the purchaser, and therefore is intrinsic.
It is a tough call. The items you produce are not illegal. I hope Zibbet realizes that they cannot possibly please everyone. A view of a seller does not reflect the views of Zibbet.
Permalink Reply by Carolina Gonzalez on November 23, 2011 at 2:14pm Thanks Sandy,
I would like to make clear again that we removed all Tarot and Spell services from our shop as soon as Admin contacted us, and offer them through our website only. I had no problem with Admins at all, and I just simply assumed that the rest, since it was clearly handmade, was ok. That is why I don't understand why this article was published today.
Permalink Reply by Two Little Witches (Samantha) on November 23, 2011 at 2:40pm Well said Sandy and I completely agree...they should treat all religions equally. If the tarot card readings are backed up in written or digital form, it would be no different than providing proof reading services.
Permalink Reply by Carolina Gonzalez on November 23, 2011 at 2:42pm Actually, it is a PDF file, with pictures of the reading, and it usually takes around 3 hours to make one, because it is a very slow and complex work. We do that with all our services.
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